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It had a plain but serviceable checkered walnut stock with trestle-style buttpad made of black rubberized iron. Why dont manufacturers get the word here? Which of these big cartridges makes the better choice for the prospective lever gun buyer? Match Grade Machine did extensive testing with different barrel lengths in some of our most popular cartridges. It had a very long first stage, which wasnt a problem. Hornady has included both cartridges in their excellent LeveRevolution line, with the .444 Marlin loaded with a 265-grain FTX bullet at 2325 fps, and the .45-70 Government loaded with a 250-grain FTX at 2025 fps. We know that Winchester has brought out a shorter-barrel version of this rifle, complete with ported muzzle, but we dont see a real need for it. Ballistically, the .450 Bushmaster is close to the .45/70 in terms of velocity . .450 Bushmaster - CHUCKHAWKS.COM 450 Marlin vs 45-70. 450 Bushmaster 044176 Cartridge. Online pricing may vary from in-store pricing. The Buffalo Bore .45-70 load, same weight bullet, was faster than the .450 Marlin. 45-70 Gov vs 450 Trajectory The trigger pull on the 444P was 4.3 pounds with prominent creep but very little overtravel. All the calibers you mention are good hunting calibers. Yes, this includes the mighty .444 and .45-70, as well as the .338 ME and its bolt action analog, the venerable .30-06. He was intrigued by the idea of the .450 Bushmaster cartridge but prefers hunting with a lever-action versus a bolt action rifle. Save my name and email to use for future comments. SAAMI Accepts 30 Super Carry As New Standardized Cartridge, SHOT 2022: Federal Premium Announces 30 Super Carry Cartridge. Not only does it reduce the possibility of developing a flinch, but it also improves the ability of the average hunter to deliver an accurate follow-up shot. The Buffalo Bore .45-70 Magnum load will see the 405-grain jacketed bullet driven to a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps for a muzzle energy of just about 3,600 ft.-lbs. Also, a synthetic stock is available with Realtree XTRA camo finish. Because of its recoil, a .28 Nosler should generally only be shot out of heavier rifles, coupled with a brake or suppressor. The original loading used a 250-grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps from a 20-inch barrel. Unless otherwise noted, these reviews carry the guns prices at the time of the original review. Also, moose, elk size game out to about 175 yards. Problem solved. If you are looking for a caliber that can do on the AR what the .450 Marlin does on the lever action, then the .450 Bushmaster is the answer to this hope, though it loses a bit of ballistics in making the switch. The models chambered for the .35 Whelen, .444 Marlin, .45-70, and .450 Bushmaster come with a muzzle brake to help dampen recoil. The .444 shoots much flatter than most folks realize. The quality of bluing on the Winchester was excellent, in spite of the slight metal-polishing problems. The .444 Marlin has a smaller frontal diameter, and bullets of equal weight will possess a higher Sectional Density than those .458-inch diameter bullets, and should offer better penetration. I live in the dense hard woods of new England where even walking up a tall hill will put you into the pines and out of any hardwoods. Mag. As it concerns .350 Legend vs .450 Bushmaster, the smaller-caliber cartridge has a decided advantage. Perhaps with a longer barrel the ammunition might achieve its claimed 2,100 fps. The two most popular flavors are the .45-70 and .450 Marlin cartridges, both of . The pores were well filled, though the finish material seemed a bit softer than that of the Marlins. 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison - Big Game Hunting Blog Brass case webs on rimmed cases, like the .45-70 or .444 Marlin, are more than strong enough for whatever pressure the stout Marlin action can take. Follow along to see exactly how. But in all honesty, it isnt for everyonebe it due to tight quarters or time constraints. .451 Caliber projectiles Item # 454 Casull 044588 460 S&W Mag 044722 480 Ruger/475 Linebaugh 044174 500 S&W Mag 044702 Sure-Loc Lock Rings . The 450 Marlin is rated at 43,500 psi compared to 28,000 psi for 45-70 Gov. On the other hand, the .450 Bushmaster is primarily intended for use on the semi-automatic AR platform, while it can also be chambered in bolt action rifles. The 444 Marlin (which I love) is headed in the other direction. The forests around here are always thick brushed with all sorts of not only leafy brush but full of little twig saplings and raspberry bushes and the like. The Wild West aperture rear sight costs $100 for Marlins, or $120 for Winchesters. flex tip Hornady's it shot 1'' at 75 yards - sighted in at that range since it's 65 yards to the hog feeder . A .450 Bushmaster is .452 inches while the .350 Legend is only about .3570 inches, which makes it more comparable to a .223 Remington. Rifle Recoil Table: Updated for 2023 with all popular cartridges Like the .44-40 WCF and .45 Colt, the .45-70 Government has been with us since 1873, and shows no sign of fading anytime soon; its roots in the American shooting industry run deep, and Id bet the affection for the design will extend another century. Its a very useful tool for me and I now phased out my 308s and just use my 450 for everything now. Still, the clip each moves at this range is more than adequate to ensure satisfactory penetration, proper bullet expansion (if you are using such a projectile) and an ethical kill. Out of the muzzle, the .250 Marlin is flying 25 ft/s faster than the .250 Bushmaster. Rifle Ammunition - Powder Valley Ammunition Superstore The rimmed .457 case is longer than the .45-70 but otherwise similar, its extra length keeping it out of chambers where it doesnt belong. The cartridge has a cavernous case capacity designed to work with black powder of the era, and it used large-diameter bullets to compensate for the low velocity produced by that propellant. Marlins inletting has been quite good in all examples of the companys rifles weve seen. Our loaner was fitted with a ghost-ring Ashley aperture sight held to the receiver with two screws. Marlins introduction of the Guide Gun didnt acknowledge Wild West Guns, so perhaps the reason for Marlins new cartridge stems from a desire to avoid copying Wild West yet again. The .444 Marlin is essentially a deer rifle that can be used on black bear. The .450 Bushmaster was developed for big game hunting with modern rifles. Deer, hog, black bear size game. At the range, the first shot told us that the Marlin .450 was a powerful rifle. The Winchester 1886 is back in several iterations, the Henry lineup includes the .45-70 and even Marlin saw fit to offer its Model 1895 Guide Gun in .45-70. In our estimation, there is no need for the cartridge, and the rifle didnt work properly. This advantage expands a bit as we cross more distance. A full-length 22-inch Marlin gave us only 2,064 with that load, so we doubt that youll ever see 2,100 fps out of the .450 Marlin. The .450 Marlins belt is longer than that found on most belted magnum cases, which means you cant make .450 Marlin cases out of normal belted magnum cases. The overall length on the .450 Marlin is also just a bit longer, at 2.55" compared to 2.26" on the Bushmaster. 450 bushmaster vs 444 marlin - 24hourcampfire Back in January we tested this superb rifle along with the similar Marlin Guide Gun, both in .45-70. The straight-hand stock had a sling swivel stud in the butt, and another on the steel that attached the wood forend. IC B2. Designed and developed by Winchester, the 350 Legend is the first new introduction to the market aimed specifically at straight-walled hunting regulations. In fact, with hot Buffalo Bore loads, the performance of the .444 Marlin would be ballistically better than ordinary loads in the .45-70 Guide Gun. Col. Jeff Cooperthe widely acknowledged expert who brought self-defense firearm training to civilians by establishing what would become Gunsite Academywas a big proponent of .44-bore or larger guns for their one-shot-stop potential. 444 Marlin VS 450 Bushmaster Which is Better. Brands include Frontier, Hornady, Lapua and Prvi Partizan. A behemoth by any standard, the large-bore rifle cartridge has been the go-to for many if not most hunters around the shores of Lake Michigan and Lake Erie up to this point. Maybe the 450 Bushmaster is the next big thing? The action was slick, about as good as the .444 Marlin. However, in a strong rifle like a Ruger No. With a 150-yard zero, the Hornady load is 2.26 inches high at 100 yards, 5.73 inches low at 200 yards, and 15.71 inches low at 250 yards. (The .450 Marlin, by the way, is a ringer for the .458 American except for that longer belt. Buy From Opticsplanet Buy From Amazon Specifications: 3-9x magnification 40mm objective lens 12.6-34.1 ft field of view at 100 yds By the way, if you are using ar-15, the scope for ar-15 is the good one you should had. Learn more . We stock a full range of bulk rifle ammunition to meet . All rights reserved. Shoot it enough and know what to expect and it shouldnt prove prohibitive, except to the most recoil shy. Our test .444 Marlin 444P was essentially a .444 Guide Gun, having the same ideas behind it as Marlins best-selling .45-70 version. 45 Raptor Vrs 450 Bushmaster | BestGunBlog.com That said, the Bushmasterwhile stoutisnt the North American version of the .500 Nitro Express. 450/460 same boolit dia, the 458 socom is bigger (45-70 sized boolits). Specifically, the hot .45-70 Buffalo Bore (BB) ammunition gave a 405-grain bullet the astounding velocity of 1,900 fps, compared to 1,200 fps with the ordinary loading of that bullet by Remington. Thats fine and dandy. Marlin 36 RPP Lever-Action - As Powerful as a .356 Win with Safe Additionally, but not across the board, many are factory outfitted with muzzle brakes to help mitigate some of the angry mule in the cartridge-rifle combination. As it is, we feel this odd belted design will only speed the demise of this rifle/cartridge combination, because it doesnt make the least bit of sense to us. At the range the Winchester was flawless in function. Today, there is no shortage of them, though the old-timers have mostly died out. Re: 450 bushmaster vs 444 marlin. Based on that flaw, wed have to say Dont Buy it. 10 Best Scope for 450 Bushmaster - Night Vision Gears New Shooters Guide: You Have Your Concealed Carry Permit Should You Carry. As far as trajectory, both start to drop excessively at 200 yards, 7.58 inches on a scope zeroed for 100 yards in the .350s case and 8.96 in the .450s. At 100 yards, that advantage is holding strong with the .450 Marlin showing an additional 701 ft-lbs of energy. It cant. Cartridges like the .450 Bushmaster, .45-70 Govt. With the hammer block there is the possibility of forgetting to press the little button before the shot, and thus losing the shot at the game animal. vs. .340 Wby. Summary: Factory ammo is not a great choice for rifle length barrels, hand loading gives better performance. The .450 Marlins additional energy will allow you to take larger game out to 200 yards, while the .450 Bushmaster should be used only for medium game at this distance. 45-70 Govt VS 450 Bushmaster Ballistics (Trajectory, Recoil, History) A 44 mag has 11 ftlbs. The 450 would do better, but, is it needed on deer? Bottles & 12-oz. Find cheap, bulk rifle ammo - 22 long rifle, winchester, 6.5 creedmoor, and more. We dug it out with a knife, reloaded two more, and again the second round failed to feed. The Hornady Flextip bullet has a BC of .225 and a muzzle velocity of 2325 fps. Most gun makers and gun buyers were not interested in new rifles chambered for this underperforming cartridge. The same bullet in the 450 Bushmaster at 200 yards still travels at 1524 fps with 1289 ft/lb of energy. I've shot a couple whitetails now shooting through 1" saplings and when the bullet hits the deer it just destroys them. The only thing holding it back right now is the delivery system. This cartridge has the potential to be the best deer hunting ammo of the lot. Non-1911 .45 ACPs: Heresy, Or Are They Here To Stay? That said, I have both in rifles. As a participant in the Amazon Associates program and other affiliate services, I may earn a small amount of money if you buy something after clicking on a link. The .450 Bushmaster was designed specifically for the AR-15. At 100 yards, the .450 Marlin is moving 52 ft/s faster. The .350 Legend is a blue-light special (if you remember that analogy) in comparison. We cant see the sense of a scope on a short, relatively light rifle, unless its done Scout-style like the Co-Pilot. Its a belted case, not the usual rimmed type one normally finds in lever rifles. The buttpad was a ventilated hard rubber pad. Of course, with the shorter barrels on the AR-15 and some other rifles, the muzzle velocity is lower, which changes all the other numbers. All of it is excellent ammunition, and it is packaged in clearly marked boxes as to what it is, and in which rifles it can be safely used. Both of these big bore cartridges are meant for a specific purpose: to bring down large game at very close ranges. It had a red cast in direct sunlight and was very attractive. 450 Bushmaster 500 S&W Magnum 6.5 Creedmoor . Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. This means Marlins, Ruger No. We would not mention this but for the fact that another shooter across the country reported to us he felt the exact same thing on two different Marlins. Photo Gallery See all Photos I must report that right out of the box the Outfitter G2's hammer was hard to cock, and it was very gritty and rough. Still, one wonders: Is there a need for a .444 Guide Gun, the 444P? Heavier bullets are available; they can run as heavy as 335 grains, though the 265- and 280-grain remain the most popular. For .450 Bushmaster and .444 Marlin, you're looking at $41 to $49 per box, and .45-70 Govt. My late Godfather Oren Mick DeCheck, my maternal great-uncleenjoyed a .444 Marlin as his deer/bear rifle, and my DadOl Grumpy Pantsstill reaches for his Browning 1886 centennial .45-70 Government, so both of these cartridges played a role in my shooting world. However, we measured Buffalo Bores 350-grain .45-70 load at 2,058 from their Guide Gun (on a cold day, unlike the blazing heat in which we tested the .450 Marlin). The Marlins rear sight was a spring-loaded buckhorn with U-notch. The muzzle velocity is 2200 fps, and the bullet carries a BC of .210. We can, however, see the beauty of an aperture sight, and desperately wanted one on both of the Marlins, such as the excellent ghost-ring Ashley or the even better fully adjustable version from Wild West with its protective ears. The .450 Marlin and the .450 Bushmaster use very similar sized bullets, as their names might suggest. You have to understand though I live within walking distance of the northern end of the white mountain national forest and the hills around here often get above 4000 feet in elevation. The choice between these calibers for many will come down to a choice between rifle platforms. Bullet drop is an important factor for all calibers, but it can make a big difference for heavy, big bore bullets that are only meant to shoot in shorter ranges. Your 450 will pick it up from there and range from 350 grains to over 500 grains. Born in 1873, .45-70 Govt. It generates 21.34 ft-lbs of energy at 12.55 fps. Utilizing a lighter bullet with a smaller powder charge, it can generally be said it produces less recoil. Unless one lives in a state that requires a straight wall for hunting, then there is not much use for either unless it is to say you got one. One recurring problem, however, was the guns poor ejection. Introduced in 1964, the .444 Marlin was kind of a stretched out .44 Magnum. Ive lost count of the groups that started under 2 inches with four shots and jumped to 5 or 6 inches on the fifth. .444 Marlin vs my .450 - The Firing Line Forums The checkering was very well done, had a pleasing pattern, and it worked very well. The concept of the fast, short, powerful lever-action rifle is probably best exemplified by the Co-Pilot, from Wild West Guns of Anchorage, Alaska. But in my opinion, the sheer flexibility of the .45-70 Government in both rifles and ammunition gives it a definitive advantage. .45-70 is perfectly housed in short-barreled lever-action rifles like the Marlin Model 1895. Formally known as the .45-70-405relating caliber-powder charge-bullet weight specificationsthe cartridge was commercially known as the .45-70 Government, and that 405-grain lead bullet travelled at a muzzle velocity of just about 1400 fps, though a heavier 500-grain bullet was soon employed. The Best Straight-Wall Cartridge for Whitetail Hunting The 350 Legend is also designed to work in AR-15 style rifles. For the .350 Legend, the ammo of choice is Winchester 's 150-grain Deer Season XP, with a listed muzzle velocity of 2,325 fps and a BC of .223. It goes so far as, previously mentioned, manufacturers offering the same model rifle in both .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend. vs. .300 Wby. Thats the exact opposite of whats in vogue with modern rifle cartridges today. Though certainly designed for black powder, the .45-70 Government survived the transition to smokeless powder, though the chosen firearm will certainly dictate the pressure levels to which the cartridge can be loaded. For 450 Bushmaster, AR 15 is always the best choice. The original rifle featured a 24" 1:38 twist microgoove (12 groove) barrel. is more comparable to the .350 Legend, but you're losing power and velocity. The .450 Marlin has quite a bit longer case, at 2.10" compared to 1.70" on the .450 Bushmaster. If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, Big-Bore Lever-Action Hunting Guns: Pass On Marlins New .450, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. Offers more range than any commercial lever gun cartridge except the .338 ME Yes, the .444 Marlin is A GOOD CHOICE for grizzly or brown bear hunting, under average conditions, from a mid-range distance, with a medium grain expanding . Many of the loads out there are designed to be safe in the trapdoor Springfields that are still around. However, with Buffalo Bores good .45-70 loads, the Guide Gun would do anything anyone would want from a medium- to big-bore lever gun, vastly exceeding the maximum performance of the .444, and with lots of space to decrease performance as needed, even down to sub-444 levels. Its the most powerful factory lever gun ever produced. Get 12 Issues a year of the country's best firearms writing. But for overall practicality, straight-wall cartridges are a topic for the good folks around the Great Lakes region. These four are the most popular. Then it had a distinct hitch to a solid stop, then a hard pull of 5 pounds followed by lots of overtravelnot the sort of action we look for in rifle triggers. In the .450 Bushmasters corner is Hornadys 250-grain FTX load, which has a listed muzzle velocity of 2,200 fps, is topped with a flex-tip bullet and has a ballistic coefficient (BC) of .210. Bushmaster and LeGendre approved the change in case length from 1.771-inch to 1.700-inch. On average, factory loaded ammo for the beast rings up north of $1 per trigger pull, which in a word is spendy. Elsewhere, we noticed an anomaly between the two Marlins. . Accuracy was all that anyone would want. Straight-wall rifles, being rifles, typically do not. 45-70 VS 450 Bushmaster - Side by Side Comparison Best grouping was with Buffalo Bores 300-grain load, just over 3 inches at 50 yards. Newly Accepted Cartridge and Chamber Designs. CVA Inc Scout TD .450 Bushmaster Single Shot Rifle w/ Stainless Barrel $429.99; Notify Me When Available; Brand: CVA Inc; Item Number: CR4830S These comments also apply directly to the .450 Bushmaster 250 grain FTX load. It retains 1,000 foot-pounds of energy to 399 yards. Big-Bore AR Cartridges | An Official Journal Of The NRA Both are suitable for nearly any big-game animal, save the African dangerous heavyweights, and both have fervent, passionate followers.