I don't have any exact numbers for you, but you can right-click an engine in flight and it will show both current and optimal airflow, which should hopefully let you work out the best altitude. At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. What determines the maximum altitude a plane can reach? Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. Paste as plain text instead, Pasted as rich text. At 3500m, you have half the drag you'd have at the surface; at 7km, 1/4 the drag, at 10.5km, 1/8 the drag, etc. From my experience using a panther it starts to lose speed after 15-16 kms, a more suitable cruising height is 9-13km. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. I followed a similar strategy. Technically, any rocket engine is also a jet engine as it forms a high-speed jet of reaction mass. I was generally under the impression that basic jets were mostly deadweight on high-performance aircraft: while they are superior for low-speed, low-altitude operations, they become deadweight at hypersonic velocities. Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? They will someday, but they don't now. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. Your link has been automatically embedded. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? Your previous content has been restored. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. Basically I can hit a target altitude of 20,000m but can not maintain it. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Fighting oscillations. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. Which makes this engine ideal for those missions which require doing many science activities above particular altitudes. Content titles and body; Content titles only Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. At that point your engines will be running about .7-.8 efficiency and you will be out of the thicker atmo which will allow you to go faster. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. Arqade is a question and answer site for passionate videogamers on all platforms. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. Thankyou all, I now reckon I have a much better understanding of the engines, hopefully that'll translate to better aircraft. 1.) Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? Rationale: If that's all a case of Too Many Words, think of it this way: Suppose you just build a plane the "default" way and don't put any AoA at all on the wings. This is the first version. You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. i dont know what kind of range youre looking for but i would make a significantly smaller plane. This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. With the tanks disconnected that way, the rockets don't leach from the jets. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. Kerbal Space Program - All Easter Eggs Guide Your decreased flight time means you probably won't make it to your location. Main goals: Auto-trimming. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. I looked into the .cfg files and there are no special properties allocated to them. So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. Thats my problem right now. Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. its rather flat but its a solid surface. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. You cannot paste images directly. Each stage of the rocket has a delta-v that depends on the stage fuel mass and the engine specific impulse. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. Why not keep the engine for multi-stage rockets? - Space Exploration These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. Have you checked out the wiki yet? June 3, 2022 . This works, but it's not optimal. A destructible memorial to the old Mk. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. Will post my results. All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) I'm in career mode and got all groups of the 45-science-cost level, except Flight Control, and additionally have Electrics, Heavy Rocketry and Fuel Systems. The SR-71 could probably fly higher, but it isn't flying any more. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. I wasn't expecting so many excellent answers! Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." KSP Delta-V Calculator - KSP HOW TO CALCULATE DELTA-V Be aware that heat buildup can gradually become a problem when the afterburners are used in sustained flight. Your airspeed is mostly limited by terminal velocity; you can go much faster if you climb a little higher. Grichmann's answer has been the most reliable way I've found to complete these missions. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. The Inland Kerbal Space Center itself, being in effect the old Kerbal Space Center from 0.2. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. : : . edited 6 yr. ago. Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. Only the fuel tanks attached to rockets have any oxidiser in them. Pasted as rich text. Anyway thanks in advance. Your previous content has been restored. This thread is quite old. I don't have that other stuff yet. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Chapter 4. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan - Kerbal Space Program That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. This thread is quite old. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. Does a plane consume more fuel if it flies at higher altitudes? Hopefully this will be helpful to you. Note that you need to activate the afterburner ("Wet Mode") manually. I checked the wiki before I wrote my question, it seems I overread this paragraph Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. So Pvt. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. As has been said, ISP is nothing to worry about. Plane - Kerbal Space Program Wiki That's because wings need to have some AoA to the airstream in order to generate much lift. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys - YouTube Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). It may work with stock too, I just don't know. Let me. As said above, the Wheesley is specifically designed as a low altitude engine. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. Knowing how to design these types of planes make jumping in to SSTO design very easy as there are only a few minor changes that need to be made.Music Credits:1st Song: \"Elephants\" - YouTube Audio Library2nd Song: \"Hot Heat\" - YouTube Audio Library3rd Song: \"Echoes\" - Kasbo - https://soundcloud.com/k-sboWhat game is this? If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft - YouTube Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Kerbin | Kerbal Space Program Wiki | Fandom Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. Jet engine - Kerbal Space Program Wiki a screenshot of kerbal space program 2. by: lord bird. Under some circumstances, you may want to reduce the engine gimbal range or disable it altogether, particularly when flying at high speeds (e.g. My question is really about controllability. Sideslip handling. Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. It may take some practice to hit your target area this way, because you'll be picking up additional horizontal speed, and thus it's possible to under or overshoot. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. Is it possible to get to an altitude of 16-20km with normal plane engines? Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. You arent doing anything wrong. - Insane lift to weight didn't help. The easiest "default" way to build a plane in KSP-- i.e. You can do that by right-clicking the engine and clicking "Toggle Mode." What altitude and speed should I go? Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. All rights reserved. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Cheers again fellas. What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. It was meant for low altitude flight. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. If you've attached them to your fuselage with zero AoA, what that means is that when you fly, you're going to have to have the entire plane pitched slightly above in order to generate lift. Yes. But maybe your patience? Pvt. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. The idea is to slow the plane to a stall above your landing spot the pop the parachute. Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. For more information, please see our To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. 2.) If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. Redoing the align environment with a specific formatting, Trying to understand how to get this basic Fourier Series. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program A jet engine from KSP 0.18 A jet engine is an air-breathing engine which uses onboard liquid fuel and combusts it with the oxygen drawn from the atmosphere. The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Powered by Invision Community. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Information Changelog Stats Another approach, which I was managing with some success before I figured out jets, is to build a rocket and catapult yourself towards the measurement point. High altitude (~20km) possible with normal plane engines? Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). Planes in Space. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. . This page was last edited on 22 December 2019, at 20:54. ksp high altitude plane - digitalidentityorganization.com You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. Make sure you have lots of control surfaces because at very high in the atmosphere, there's not much air for the wings to control the craft with. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. It flames out at 25,000. http://www.youtube.com/user/Cruzanak?sub_confirmation=1Quicklinks to topics in this videoJet Engine Concepts: 0:30Air Intakes: 1:13Flameouts: 2:22Control Surfaces: 5:08Flying Tips: 5:57This video will go over everything that you need to know about to design a capable plane that can fly in the thinnest of atmospheres. Best altitude to fly a plane? - Kerbal Space Program - GameFAQs Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. High altitude planes - Kerbal Space Program Forums It only takes a minute to sign up. - Insane TWR didn't help. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. Now lets combine these two indicators: The best performance your engine can achieve is when you have an optimal amount of Air Flow (obviously) but also the MAXIMUM amount of Air Intake. Trying to do something without the right part is long and difficult path. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. To get there, you're going to want to climb at the fastest rate you can manage to 18-20 km, at which point you should mostly level off and start accelerating horizontally. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. So if you replace the turbos with basic jets, you will have more thrust from the ground up, and your vessel will weigh slightly less. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. AoA built into the wing relative to the plane body is called the angle of incidence, just to help clear up. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). - but they were talking about having two intakes/engine. 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. Theomon \u0026 Orlin Visit the Badlands in the Panther24:20 - Launch \u0026 Ejection of the Maxwell VI26:34 - Designing the SENTINEL 129:47 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell VIIFull List of Mods: Aviation Lights Chatterer Community Tech Tree Crew R\u0026R Croud Sourced Science Contract Configurator Contract Packs: Bases and Stations Reborn CommNet Relays Exploration Plus Field Research Kerbal Academy Tourism Plus Contracts Window+ Decoupler Shroud Easy Vessel Switch Kerbal Alarm Clock Kerbal Attachment System Kerbal Construction Time Kerbal Engineer Redux Kerbal Inventory System Kerbalism kOS KRASH Maneuver Node Evolved Navball Alignment Indicator Near Future Aeronautics Near Future Construction Near Future Electrical Near Future Propulsion Near Future Solar Near Future Spacecraft Persistent Rotation Rational Resources RCS Build Aid Continued Restock Restock+ SCANsat Scrapyard SMART Parts Stage Recovery Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux TAC Fuel Balancer Texture Replacer Trajectories Transfer Window Planner Universal Storage 2 Unkerballed Start Waypoint Manager
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