June 22nd, 2017, 09:15 PM #2. . Caliber: 300 AAC Blackout-MSRP: 1015. And when the special operations community began searching for a new 300 Blackout PDW, Sig Sauer provided a solution with the SIG MCX Rattler. This gun has a picatinny rail system for accessories, a six-position collapsible stock, a flash suppressor and a single-stage trigger. For sling attachment there was a fixed steel sling loop at the heel of the butt plate, or you could utilize the slot that ran parallel to the buffer tube beneath the cheek piece. Can't wait to find the price on this and see one in person . It uses a specialized upper receiver that is designed to be as compact as possible. For a firearm chambered in a rifle caliber, that is shockingly short, especially when you consider the first 2.26 inches or so is the chamber. But we loved the buttpad and the overall contour of the stock. The two most well-known modern PDWs are the FN P90 and the HK MP7. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. Anything under 10.5" and not only do you run the risk of a strike but you are also going to get a ton of unburnt powder trashing the inside of the can. This test was performed cold, one and done with no makeups. But Wilsons Q-Comp flash hider/muzzle brake also does its part in keeping the gun manageable. For more information, please see our You have entered an incorrect email address! The Barnes 110-grain TAC-TX had fully expanded by 7 inches, leaving a perfectly mushroomed bullet weighing 108 grains at 26 inches. Taking into account the creep in the CMMG trigger, we patiently worked our way to the break. However, on the PDW, the Reptilia grip and the provided 20-round magazines look perfect. SIG's Rattler pistols come with a 5.5 inch PDW threaded barrel and removable tool-less M-Lok Handguard. But upon closer inspection, we noticed that the safety and magazine release were ambidextrous. This rifle also features a free float M-LOK handguard, ambidextrous controls and a rotating bolt system. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? and at a gun show I saw the Sig Cross bolt rifle . While the plastic handguard and the buttstock showed a little bit of play, fit and function of the more important parts of the M400 Classic were exceptional. Compare specifications of Sig Sauer SIGMCX Rattler 300 AAC Blackout PMCX-300B-5B-TAP-PSB and Springfield Saint Victor Pistol 300 AAC Blackout STV909300B. A spring detent pin was compressed to fold it down. The civilian version of the U.S. Army's new XM7 rifle. You have entered an incorrect email address! My wife surprized me with a Birthday gift this year the new CZ TS2 Blue . The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. Just Got this in my e-mail . But like you, I also bought the SA Saint Victor 300 BLK pistol, which is very well made. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. I just wish the right-side lever was shorter so it wouldnt bump my trigger finger when flipping it off. Decibels dont drop like flies with every load. I'm having a hard time deciding on which one of these to purchase. Working the Saint trigger differed from that of the SIG Sauer. After comparing the two the Springfield was built better and looked better and had better brace . If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Barrel-twist rate was 1:7, and breaking down the rifle revealed a reduced-mass hammer. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. Most familiar with ARs know you dont have to go out and buy one specially chambered for the want-to-be 7.6239mm clone. Instead, its plenty accurate for its intended purpose. Don't wrestle with pigs, don't argue with idiots. Yes, we would have preferred a flat-top gas block with rail for attaching a folding front sight, and were not exactly sure how to connect a sling to the front end without pulling on the barrel, but were not sure there is much else wrong. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. Build a gun that works and, by gum, the world will beat a path to your door. Rather, the AR-15 is an ideal defensive weapon necessary for the legally armed defense-conscious American. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. Thanks Bio. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. The rear-sight assembly (sometimes referred to as BUIS or backup iron sight) was a flip-up design. My wife said I'm going to buy me a new gun which one do you think the Blue or Orange . I got the email also Bio. SIG MCX Rattler SBR . As long as you are not expecting rifle-length performance out of a barrel this short, you wont be disappointed. The Sig Rattler would fit the description of what your looking for perfectly with a 5.5 in .300blk barrel and no buffer tube. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. I have a sig elite which is similar to the tread, no issues solid rifle. All Rights Reserved. Putting it into action required lifting it from its horizontal position. The trigger was forgiving in any situation, and construction was first rate. What more can you ask for? A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. Sig Sauer may have the answer in the MCX Rattler PCB! Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? The result was more shots fired within the allotted time limit. Jacketed bullets can fragment at higher velocities due to high twist rates. a little more then I've ever spent on a gun .So I called it a holy grail gun , which I had many other guns in front of that one . Chris Johnson, FN Senior Product Manager, walks us through two new FN striker-fired pistols at SHOT Show 2023: the FN 510 Tactical, chambered in 10mm Auto, and the FN 545 Tactical, chambered in .45 ACP. Shooting the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max 223 ammunition, we were rewarded with five-shot groups that measured an average of just 0.6 inch across. The bottom of the grip was removable, and there were fittings to hold popular batteries such as the CR123 or AA inside. However, it does have certain things to recommend it over those others. The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. However, the range in resistance spanned from about 6.75 pounds to almost 8.0 pounds. As to the tale of the tape, the gun has a 10.5-inch cold hammer-forged barrel (1:7 twist) and comes in at a very agile 5.8 pounds. The Sig Enhanced is heavy and not as responsive as youd expect in a gun of this class, somewhat akin to a mil-spec job. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. I would go with the sig. Its truly impressive. I found myself hooking my index finger around the front of it while shooting as opposed to actually using it as a hand stop. Our Suppressor Guru, seen here with a SIG Sauer SRD-762 on a SIG Rattler, provides some pointers. To activate it from either side of the gun, I mounted its tape switch on the Rattlers Picatinny top rail. The old-fashioned buttpad didnt bother us because it was properly fit, but wed definitely change out the grip. Given the paperwork and money you spent on the can, is it worth testing twist-rates theories yourself? Our Team Said: The CMMG Mk4T showed extremely good balance. You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers. New Shooters Guide: What Is a Pistol Caliber Carbine? Type: Semi-Auto Pistol. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. I've shot the Saint a few times and my local lgs and I like the trigger, feel and ergonomics. Both suppressors were more effective than, say, a flash suppressor or muzzle brake, but dont expect the gun to be as quiet as those shown in the movies. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. What is it? They screwed up, realize it, and took care of the problem. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. Barrel is Chromemoly Vanadium, Melonite coated inside and out, 1:8 twist and a NATO chamber. He called it a stutter. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. Not as expensive as their Carbon Fiber wrapped Barrel model, but probably my most costly AR15 to date. Matte Black. There was another location for a QD sling from either side at the rear of the receiver just below where the buffer tube was attached. The SIG Rattler is something special. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. The trigger is Springfields flat trigger, first introduced on the Saint Victor line. The new rifle is built on an aluminum billet chassis with carbon-fiber forend and cheek riser featuring V-block bedding. MSRP: $2,000; wilsoncombat.com. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). Hornadys 110-grain V-MAX bullet penetrated 26 inches and retained 88.7 grains of its original bullet weight. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. The buttstock was properly applied and showed only the slightest wiggle. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. But After getting hooked on the Springfield Saint line I lost interest in the Sig , I feel bad. But it was visible when we used the Romeo4 red-dot scope. Save my name and email to use for future comments. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . All remaining rounds produced 1-inch groups. Built with a premium nickel boron coated trigger, forged carrier, enhanced Melonite coated carrier group and a pinned gas block, every rifle is built for ultimate reliability. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . Maybe they will give me some clarity. The barrel has a 1:8-inch twist and is Melonite coated. Caleb Giddings, Marketing Manager at Taurus, introduces the all-new TaurusTX 22 Compact. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. They are more compact and lighter than ever, Making it the ideal weapon for Rapid deployment and close quarter work. 2023 Outdoor Sportsman Group. Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. This gun was designed from the ground up to be as discrete as possible while retaining all the capabilities of the MCX. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. It has a nickel boron coating and provides a single-stage trigger pull. Additionally, the gun has one of the best brace systems going, a fast-deploying affair that cuts the size of the firearm nearly in half when folded in. A final note, the Protector is a very shootable pistol, thanks in part to its heft (a shade under 6 pounds). This is the MCX Rattler. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. Profits before the 2A. So me and the wife was going to the local gun shop so I could buy my Springfield Hellcat RDP , While I was doing my paper work the wife was looking around and was checking out some hand guns she was looking at the CZ's They had the Shadow 2 orange in 9mm $1,900 . For our distance work we mounted a SIG Sauer 3-12x42mm Tango4 optical scope ($900 MSRP). So, I spread the wealth equally. It's perfect for sporting or home defense with high reliability and some furniture and trigger upgrades that set it apart from other budget AR-15s. Our action test was designed to tell us more about trigger response and maneuverability than could be culled from a static benchrest session. So was the grip and handguard. The first was the SilencerCo Omega 9K, which is only 4.7 inches long and weighs 7.2 ounces. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. The PDW with the Hate Brake produced far less flash and noise than a 16-inch-barreled AR equipped with a traditional muzzlebrake. Saw that email pop up today. However, if youre shooting supersonic, its right on target. Can the SIG MCX Rattler do it? Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. MSRP: $700; palmettostatearmory.com, Good advice on the 300 blk pistols Anybody not owning a 300 blk should consider getting one Im 66 years young, big fan of 270,300 magnum but this 300 blk up to 150 yards is great . Modern PDWs are often designed to be able to penetrate soft body armor with armor-piercing (AP) ammo. In fact, it wasnt that long ago that SIG was in a similar position. And I also used a LaRue Tactical offset mount to install a SureFire M312 Vampire Scout, which produces white and IR light. The 194-grain Lehigh Defense ME bullet was the only subsonic to expand. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. Give a Gift FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. Anybody who has experience with these I would appreciate your opinions. And in the end after a couple of weeks go by she said to my are you happy with your choice I said of course , why I said . I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. It started expanding at about 6 inches and fragmented at 15, leaving just the lead core and base at 26 inches. It's The only Sig I have left I won't give up because I like it that much . I got several other Sigs (all calibers of P320, P365, P365xl, Xfive P320 Legion, and recently P226 Legion). I cant understand that. Runs great. All three-rifle barrels were marked 5.56 NATO. I think I've driven myself mad with comparing the pros and cons. Another latecomer to AR manufacturing, Ruger has proven fast in picking up the rules of the game. Short and sweet, the 5.5-inch barreled MCX Rattler is as compact as 300 Blackout pistols come. The $1000 CMMG Mk4T may still use the M1 buttstock and grip, but the 416 stainless-steel barrel offered a 1:7 twist on the inside and a bead-blast finish on the outside. There is longer rifling in the barrel of the handgun currently on my hip than there is in this PDW. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. ". But there is hope for me after seeing the new SnakeBite Tread 5.56 . Love this gun . In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. From the 100-yard line, the Saint delivered 1.0-inch five-shot groups with the Black Hills 60-grain V-Max, 69-grain OTM rounds, and the 77-grain TMK ammunition. I would really like to hear from you guys who have had access and range time with these MSR's. I'm like seriously I could of got the checkmate . I mainly shoot at an indoor range. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. I wanted to see if the bullets would expand at close range given their lower velocities. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. All Rights Reserved. It provides added backpressure for reliable cycling. 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They are meant to be easier to use and harder-hitting than a handgun but smaller and lighter than a rifle. The 300 Blackout pistol model is no different, but few shooters miss the bells and whistles with a gun that goes bang with every trigger pull and hits the mark. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. However, the company Match Duo, with a 5.5 break, does a much better job of getting the most out of the pistol. You are using an out of date browser. Operation was very smooth and secure. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. This short barrel has a 1-in-5-inch twist rate optimized for heavy bullets, and its paired with an adjustable gas block so you can run the gun with a suppressor, for example. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. Youll probably need hearing protection with sub- and supersonic ammo. Support gear used:***Splatterburst Targetshttps://amzn.to/2Kera7g***Peltor Sport RangeGuard Hearing Protectionhttps://amzn.to/2LsLUbXThe Springfield XDM Elit. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. So had to go home and think about it , while driving she asked which one I liked , i like them all but of course . When it comes to affordability, most figured Palmetto State Armory was going to show up sooner or later on this list. Thank you for that information, I really needed to know that. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. Whereas the SIG Sauer presented direct pressure against a solid object, the Saints trigger offered a subtle compression before reaching its breaking point. The barrel is tipped with a special version of Maxim Defenses interesting Hate Brake. PDWs are an established, in-between class of firearm. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Magazine release from the left side was a little easier if pressure was applied more toward the rearward edge than over the center of the button. However, given the options available, there are plenty of reasons and opportunities to buy a complete firearm. It began in earnest in the late 1980s. Their latest addition is the Saint Edge PDW AR pistol, and Im sure it will get its large slice of the AR pie. With its A1 front-sight assembly, two-piece plastic handguard and M4 buttstock, the M400 Classic did not appear to be a carbine with the type of upgrades we were looking for. Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. Probably, but not at 900 fps. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. As to suppressibility, few centerfire rifle cartridges do it better. I usually have to take break between mags. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. But I will check out Sig's new Tread SE to see if I like it Yeah. OK, so they want in sending rounds waaaay downrange. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. The M-Lok handguard gives you the ability to attach . The new big bore pistols feature industry-first capacity, with a standard 15-round capacity and 22+1 rounds of 10mm or 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP from the extended magazines. Working the charging handle was smooth and revealed no linear movement. A PDW is not a rifle. The new-for-2023 lineup includes ultralight hunting stocks and a VGA 2-pound adjustable vertical-grip stock. The gas block is pinned in place. They said nothing as short as the rattler. SIG P320 TACOPS vs Springfield XDM Elite 4.5 Tactical 19,446 views Mar 13, 2020 370 Dislike Share Save Hammer Striker 79.8K subscribers In this video we compare two tactical offerings: The new. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. The target to our right showed three A-zone hits and a stray shot in the D-zone, furthest from center. Extraordinary accuracy. Twist rate on bullets is a debatemine is 1:7 on 9 barrel. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. The issue is, get it wrong, send a bullet yawling at the muzzle and youre contending with endcap and baffle strikes in your suppressor. Upon an audible start signal, the shooter raised the carbine from low ready (about a 30-degree angle to the horizon), switched off the safety, and engaged each target with only one round before moving on. Springfield Armory Saint vs Sig Sauer M400 Tread . So much so that we almost took to calling it a three-stage trigger. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. Subscriber Services. Sig Sauer has really redefined the word versatility with the MCX and MPX, and it doesnt get much better than the Rattler in close quarters. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY - SAINT 16" 5.56 BRAVO CO MLOK HANDGUARD, Sig Sauer M400 Tread .223/5.56 Semi-Automatic 30rd 16". Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. If the general shape of Springfields PDW looks a little familiar to you, theres a reason for that. Featuring a 5.5" PDW barrel, the MCX platform has never been more compact or accessible. With the shooter lined up on the center target, the object was to land as many hits as possible into the central A-zone of each paper target within a fixed 10-second time limit. The 3rd pic is the new Snakebite M400 5.56 Rifle , But It's a stock photo . Personally Id avoid Springfield due to personal issues with the company and their politics. By 5george31 in forum Rifles Replies: 92 Last Post: November 3rd, 2016, 05:28 AM. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . That's a $1000 dollar rifle and a good deal at that but you're getting gouged pretty bad at 1400. If we were to describe the bolt lock/release assembly as a seesaw, the typical lower end could be seen as being constructed without the seat. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. He is a gun owner and avid reloader from Colorado. The only spot on the Rattler is its trigger. The result was sub-MOA groups (less than 1 inch center to center) from two of the five test ammunitions, including our lightest bullet and our heaviest. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle.